Kim Gordon: Approaching Things Sideways
by Lana Fleischli
Previously Published in That’s Interesting Zine
Who is someone that inspired you to do all of the kinds of art that you do?
Well I guess early on I was a bit influenced by Andy Warhol. So, he was one person and then there are just other art-- I don’t know, people working in New York. I used to take modern dance. I used to take Martha Graham, so I subscribed to this dance magazine and, early on I saw an article about the Judson Church Movement which is a group of dancers like Yvonne Rainer, and a lot of people-- Steve Paxton, and it was in the same kind of time period as Fluxism, so the art was a lot about process and, they were kind of exploring the boundaries of what dance could be. Like Yvonne Rainer made films. So that was really interesting to me like I wanted to go to New York because of that in a way besides other artists, but when I moved to New York it was all over (that period), but anyway, it was still-- you know there’s so many things in the seventies art-wise and in the sixties, it was less commercial. It was more process, it was more about ideas, and that was inspiring. And of course The Velvet Underground were part of the whole Warhol factory kind of fascination.
Is there an overall meaning or thought process to the art or music that you create?
No. Not really, it’s more just a feeling. I obviously like music with dissonance in it because that is a way to describe the grey area in life.
Yeah, well when I was listening to Sonic Youth and a bit of Body/Head, the distorted sound was usually present. How did you find that distorted sound?
Well, that’s the easiest part is plugging into distortion pedals, but Sonic Youth always used different tunings that can set up. But, there are a lot of people that use different tunings, like Joni Mitchell. She never learned how to play conventionally-- I think she had polio or some disease as a kid, so she kind of learned to play guitar. I mean, I never learned how to play music conventionally, so I picked it up after-- sort of when I moved to New York, really. So, this artist asked me if I wanted to be involved in this performance piece and if I wanted to form an all-girl band, and I had this sort of noise-garage band in school briefly that we started for class, anyway and there were a lot of people in downtown New York who were involved in something called No Wave, which is very dissonant and very free music. There were composers, people like Glenn Branca and Reese Chadam who were applying overtones instead of on a piano, or instead of more kind of conventional instruments for new music compositions; you know, people like Jen Cage, people like that. They used electric guitars. They would tune, like Glenn Branca would tune guitars. He would have a whole army of guitars and he would tune them to like E, but before that he was in a No Wave band and it was all very-- it was different than like punk rock because punk rock was still kind of conventional in its structure with some groups like The Slits or The Raincoats, but for the most part it was still three-chord rock and roll, which is like the rhythm is faster and the lyrics and intent of it was more kind of-- to make rebellion against corporate rock that became very bloated, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, I was influenced by basically the spirit in which I took up playing music was not like “I want to be a musician and learn how to play the bass!”, no; that is not the way it went at all. And I still wanted to make art and I wrote some articles for art magazines and stuff like that.
What was the beginning of X-Girl?
Well that was another thing that I really just fell into doing. My friend Daisy Von Furth, she has a sister, Julia Cafritz who was in Pussy Galore and we were friends and then I met her sister and... We were friends with the X-Large boys. The Beastie Boys were-- they weren’t actually that involved with the X-Large, they were friends of them and maybe one of the Beastie Boys gave them a little money or something. It was more of like they were just-- somehow though, they became the face of X-Large, The Beastie Boys. Anyways so, one of the guys used to hear Daisy and I talking about shopping for Levi Chords, 517 Levi Chords at the Flea Market, or the perfect T-Shirt, blah, blah, blah, so they asked us if we wanted to do a girl’s line basically. So, we did that for a couple of years and we sold it to the Japanese, and what they do there has nothing to do with us. We don’t do it-- We sold it like in ‘96 or ‘95, so we didn’t do it for very long, and we were surprised that the name sort of lived on.
In your book, you described yourself as an introvert growing up. Do you still consider yourself as a shy person?
I do! I mean, when I left home and the family dynamics of having an older brother, I felt, I guess, a little more like I had to put myself out there more, but I do still consider myself a shy person.
If you could change one thing about the art/music industry, what would it be?
Well, I guess I would want it to be less corporate, the music industry. Like everything seems to come down to algorithms, or I don’t know. Like you can’t change technology once it's out… Yeah, I don’t know. I think that I would [want] just less of a thing about branding, and to that end, I don’t even like how feminism has become sort of a branding thing like, “Strong, Iconic Woman”, it's just like, I don’t know I just feel like that’s such bullshit. It’s kind of just like, “Just give us equal pay!”
How was being a mom on tour with Coco when she was younger?
Hmmm… Well, it was exhausting! I mean we always brought someone along to, you know, help take care of Coco. But it also-- I think it made everyone in kind of a better mood if she was around, or people were on their best behavior.
Yeah, I mean-- that sounds like fun, but long…
Yeah, I mean, I don’t think it was fun for her. Touring is only fun if you're playing. And, you know, I think she felt a bit alone-- like we tried to make it as fun as we could for her but, I think she… Also, it was just hard to explain to her friends what it was like, you know cause it sounds so much more glamorous than it is.
Yeah, so did you ever feel like there was like a barrier, or something kind of preventing you from doing anything that you wanted to do in the beginning, or now, or anytime?
Hmm… Well, I always feel like my biggest barrier is always myself. Whether if it’s something I’m not confident [in], if I had more confidence I feel like, I would maybe do the things I do more immediately. Maybe I would approach things more sideways.
What do you mean by sideways?
Like feel my way into it.
Are you saying that’s a bad thing?
Well great or bad I just feel like maybe I end up-- It’s not the most efficient way to do things.
What is the best advice you have ever received?
Wow, that’s hard. Well someone told me once, like, “Don’t get stuck in a lifestyle. Don’t trade it-- your life for lifestyle.” Which I think just means: don’t hold yourself back because your friends aren’t doing it, or-- you know what I mean? Do what you have to do what you have to do.
How has that impacted you?
I mean it’s something that I still-- It’s hard-- I think it’s hard for women to be so singularly focused on their work, like to really lose themselves in their work. Maybe this is just a huge generalization, and probably incredibly sexist of me to say. I feel like women are always thinking more about other people, like in the way their-- I don’t know, just in the way they’re culturally ingrained or something. So, I think it’s harder for women to be, to like own this sort of selfishness you need to do your work.
Yeah, like just having an ego.
To be-- just claim that time or that space for yourself.
Yeah, no, I think it’s important. Someone told me once, like it’s bad to have too much ego, but it’s also bad to have no ego. You still need to have confidence in yourself. I mean, there’s a line.
Yeah, I think the best thing is to learn, and this is difficult like if you’re gonna do art or music to learn how to be self-critical without… yeah.
Okay, then, so that kind of leads to the next thing. So, what advice would you give to someone looking to be in art or entertainment, and all that kind of stuff in general?
Um, well, first of all, art and entertainment are different. But they become more similar as time goes by, but I don’t know just like I guess: be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it and then you're stuck with it.
Fun Facts
What is your favorite burger in L.A.?
Oh, well definitely The Apple Pan burger-- steak or hickory.
What is your favorite T.V. show?
Ooh, that’s hard! Favorite right now or all time?
Both?
Woah! Okay, I guess-- that’s really hard. I’d have to say Friday Night Lights. I do also like The Wired, The Sopranos, and Madmen. I like that show Atlanta. I like it a lot.
